Michigan WaterFurnace Synergy 3D and Hydronic storage tank for in floor radiant

Discussion in 'Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by InTheBoilerRoom, Feb 9, 2017.

  1. InTheBoilerRoom

    InTheBoilerRoom New Member

    Background: I'm a homeowner in SE Michigan with a vertical closed loop system that provides forced air for all floors of my home (2200 sq ft unfinished basement, 2000 sq ft first floor, 1000 sq ft second floor) and hydronic radiant floor heating for the basement slab. My house was completed summer of 2015. The forced air component is working just fine without issue, but we've had issues with the hydronic component in the basement.

    Heat pump: WaterFurnace Synergy 3D (SDV064)
    Hydronic storage tank: 80 gallon State Industries Geothermal Storage Tank (SGV821OTS 110)

    We've dealt with some past issues (tank leaking) that required the installer to replace the storage tank once already. Prior to them replacing the tank, we had no issues with the heat pump properly maintaining the water temperature in the storage tank. Since the tank was replaced in October 2016, though, the heat pump is not controlling the temperature in the tank properly.

    Explanation of the problem: If water in the tank is at 60 degrees, and I turn on the hot water feature on the Synergy 3D (flip the switch on the unit to on), the system will start heating up the water in the storage tank, as long as there is no demand for forced air. But, the system never stops running until there is a high pressure fault. It seems that the heat pump properly detects when the temperature is low and it needs to heat the tank, but never detects when the temperature reaches the set point to shut off. It will heat the tank up to over 120 degrees, even when the tank thermostat is set to 90 degrees, and the pressure gauge out from the tank hits its maximum readout of 60 psi, with a return pressure of 50 psi. The loop from the tank to the floor and back stays at 40 psi.


    I have tried to get the installer to come back out to fix the issue, and he refuses. At least he responds to texts (sometimes) during my troubleshooting, though. I've had another professional come out to look at the system, and they are suggesting all kinds of additional equipment that wasn't necessary for the system to work before the storage tank was replaced, and they've been dragging their feet on getting me a quote to do the bare minimum to get the system working properly. At the installer's request, I've measured the red wires from the tank that are supposed to be the thermostat wires (per my installer) and they never read anything other than 0 ohms.

    I suspect that the storage tank thermostat is either wired incorrectly to the heat pump, or it is a faulty thermostat.

    Additional information:
    • The manuals and documentation from State Industries are worthless crap. They don't even acknowledge the presence of the lower thermostat. Their website barely acknowledges the existence of their geothermal storage tanks.
    • With the original storage tank, the breaker to the tank was always left in the off position so that it would only be heated by the heat pump, and never the internal element. This suggests that the lower thermostat in the tank does not require power. I assume the heat pump is measuring a resistance in the wire that is a function of water temperature.
    • The tan jacket wire from the heat pump is run to the storage tank, and the red and white wires from the tan jacket are wired to red wires at the top of the tank. The red wires run to the lower thermostat of the tank, where they are connected to two yellow wires. See attached pictures.
    WP_20170204_11_01_54_Pro.jpg WP_20170208_19_12_33_Pro.jpg
    • In the attached picture of the lower thermostat, there are two screw terminals that are unused. My installer says those don't need to be used for the heat pump connection, is that correct?

    Since local professionals aren't being much help (at least not in a reasonably timely manner), I turn to you all. Does my conclusion seem sound, or might there be something else at play here? The only thing that has changed between when the system worked correctly and now is that the storage tank was replaced.

    Attached Files:

  2. ChrisJ

    ChrisJ Active Member Forum Leader

    Last edited: Feb 9, 2017
  3. geoxne

    geoxne Active Member Forum Leader

    The yellow wires go to a temp sensing 10k thermistor to be used with a temperature controller that requires that signal. It is not used in your application.

    The red wires should be attached to the 2 screw terminals on the mechanical thermostat just above and set to the correct temperature. This assumes the wiring to the HP is wired according to the installation manual.

    Per installation manual page 12.
  4. InTheBoilerRoom

    InTheBoilerRoom New Member

    Geonxe, thanks for your reply. I was thinking along those lines.
  5. ChrisJ

    ChrisJ Active Member Forum Leader

    I thought the yellow wire went to the heating element that's why I edited that out the wrong info.

    Thanks Geoxne!
  6. geoxne

    geoxne Active Member Forum Leader

    The Geo Storage tank is built by State Industries for Waterfurnace to their specifications. That's why you won't find any useful info at the State website. The most useful info will be found at Waterfurnace.

    ChrisJ, Yes that is where a heating element would go in a normal tank. No one would expect otherwise unless one was familiar with the Watefurnace version.
  7. InTheBoilerRoom

    InTheBoilerRoom New Member

    Just to follow up, I did rewire the red wires to the screw terminals on the bottom thermostat, and all is working correctly now. Doesn't give me confidence in the installer that he insisted that they should be wired to the yellow thermistor wires.
  8. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Do not beat the tech to hard. All it takes to loose one's train of thought un-wiring a part, is a waggy tailed dog and lack of a pencil and paper.

    In fact he may be the best tech there. Give him time and he will grow into the job. He shows up when you call him so there is a plus. Many a time in the almost forty years I have been in the HVAC business I have almost been run out of the business by an irate customer in the middle of the night and a broken machine.


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