Pennsylvania Replacement Unit; WaterFurnace Vs ClimateMaster

Discussion in 'Quotes and Proposals' started by Daniel C RIley, Jan 19, 2022.


Brand of preference?

  1. Water Furnace

  2. ClimateMaster

    0 vote(s)
  3. Other

    0 vote(s)
  1. Daniel C RIley

    Daniel C RIley New Member

    My wife and I purchased a home in October of 2021 that came equipped with a 6 ton Water Furnace Premier 2 2 stage Unit. The unit is supplied by 5 vertical wells each dug 192 ft, for a total of 960ft of looping. We are located in Western, Pa. The home has 3 zones, and is roughly 4000sqft finished between below grade finished basement, 1st, and 2nd floor. There is a finished attic that has electric baseboard. we are in the middle of the woods on 40 acres, there is no gas.

    Before purchasing I had everything inspected and it looked good, shortly after acquiring home we started having some issues with the furnace shutting down, came out to a bad breaker once changes, everything worked flawlessly. Then the 1st stage pump went causing us to run on electric aux most of the month, and a massive electric bill. The home was built in 98 or 99, and the WF is original, so it is about 22-23 years old. I understand with this model anything major like with the Freon would be cost prohibitive to fix, and it is in the twilight of its life.

    I decided while there is still a tax credit I should figure out exactly hat I am going to replace it with and proactively plan it for this year or next, depending. I have had a hard time researching online finding any solid resources on reviews from clients or company's o specific units or brands as a whole. I have an across some negative reviews of ClimateMaster around difficulty with warranty claims, but those were from almost 10yrs ago.

    Also I have had 3 WF quotes and 1 water Climatemaster quote, getting a second this week. All quotes were ballpark over the phone. They are as follows:

    Company 1 Recommended WF Series 7 5t ton 23.5k plus another 3.5k if you get the upgraded zones
    Company 2 Recommended WF Series 5 5 ton, 28-30k
    Company 3 Recommended WF Series5 6 ton (may be 5 after he comes out) 28kish installed with new zones and new water heater
    Company 4 Recommended ClimateMaster Tranquility 30TEV 6 Ton 12-15k

    Why such a disparity in price? from what i understand these are the 2 top manufacturers in my area, is WF that much better or that much overpriced? It is a lot of money and I want to make the best decision possible, I am not on a race to the cheapest price, but I don't want to spend unnecessary money either.

    Are there any other brands I should be considering?

    Any experience with these units from installers, techs, or consumers would be appreciated, as I am fairly good with finding info, and there isn't a ton from end users on these units.

    Thanks for reading,

  2. Deuce

    Deuce Member

    If your unit is inside conditioned space then I would go with the WF 7 series.
  3. Daniel C RIley

    Daniel C RIley New Member

    It is, there is a large furnace room where the furnace and water heater sit inside, right outside of the gameroom
  4. Deuce

    Deuce Member

    Let us know how it turns out.
    Daniel C RIley likes this.
  5. gsmith22

    gsmith22 Active Member Forum Leader

    Have no experience with climatemaster and how that particular unit compares with the WF 5 or 7 series. WF 7 series is variable speed compressor with variable speed fan. WF 5 series is two stage compressor with variable speed fan. If you are being quoted the same or less to install a WF 7 series versus the WF 5 series, it is an absolute no brainer to go with the WF 7 series. I have two WF 7 series and they are fantastic. Keep in mind that to get the most bang for the buck, you want variable speed ground loop pumps paired with the WF7 series (I believe the config for the WF 7 allows the use of single speed). Confirm that the quote includes switching those loop pumps out - I'm assuming the existing loop pumps must be single speed units.
    Daniel C RIley likes this.
  6. Daniel C RIley

    Daniel C RIley New Member

    I agree, from my research i couldn’t see a reason to pay more for the mid tier unit then the top tier. It appears not every distributor is trained and approved for all the electronics of the w7, so they just avoid it. All quotes include changing out pump station and redoing the zoning systems.
  7. xSpecBx

    xSpecBx Member

    I have no experience with water furnace as my GSHP is a hydron module, but from everything I have read, WaterFurnace is the premier GSHP, with the series 7 being the top of the line due to its variable speed compressor vs the more common 2 stage compressor like mine has. I believe the same parent company that owns WaterFurnace owns ClimateMaster, with ClimateMaster being the more affordable option.

    Whatever you decide, make sure you pick a competent and qualified contractor with good reviews. Maybe that's less of an issue since you have an existing system, but that seems to be where most folks go wrong.
  8. Daniel C RIley

    Daniel C RIley New Member

    Xspec, I agree, it seems from reading negative reviews most boil down to bad installation or undersized unit and/or loop. The nice thing is i have been in contact w the company who drilled the well in 98' thats how i was able to get the loop depth and construction info, and when detailing the loop and drilling company, all 4 installers i have spoken with said they are top notch and the best in the area.

    The WF 7 is indeed premier and supposed to consume less energy and last longer than mid tier due to the variable speed, and it seems climate masters comparable unit would be the Trilogy 45 QE. Still havent been able to find an answer as to what makes WF that much better for significant increase in cost. I asked the WF salesmen I spoke with what they would say the edge was for their product vs CM, and none of them cited poor equipment or warranty, they said their teams knowledge and reputation, as well as WF being an industry leader.
  9. xSpecBx

    xSpecBx Member

    I suspect much of the cost difference won’t show up in a spec sheet. Differences in materials, where the components are produced and assembled, training and certification for contractors and the support you get when there are problems is all baked into the upfront cost.

    That is a complete guess though.
  10. SShaw

    SShaw Active Member Forum Leader

    If you have three zones on one heat pump, a variable speed unit would be better than two-stage, as you can match the airflow to the zones. I would lean towards the 7 Series with Intellizone.

    I wouldn't conclude that Climatemaster is cheaper based on your quotes. You had three similar quotes for WF. It's more likely the one CM dealer that quoted you is cheaper. I wouldn't conclude much from ballpark numbers either. They could go up when folks visit your house. I'm surprised you got four firms to quote you over the phone, but maybe that's due to COVID.
  11. Daniel C RIley

    Daniel C RIley New Member

    Thanks for the input. We shall see. I have 2 different climate master installers coming to the house tomorrow, and next week 2 WaterFurnace dealers, i i should have some hard numbers and quotes to look over and think about.
  12. AlaskanNoob

    AlaskanNoob New Member

    You got a quote for 23.5K for a Series 7 and you have existing vertical wells already? Do they have to install new loops in those wells?
  13. xSpecBx

    xSpecBx Member

    That is probably just the cost of the new heat pump and installation. My total installation cost was around $50k with about $10k of that being ductwork and a new hot water heater.

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