My experiences so far

Discussion in 'Geothermal Heat Pump Testimonials' started by HVAC Technician, Oct 15, 2010.

  1. I am a commercial hvac tech, and decided to have a Carrier water source heat pump installed at my home in Lexington SC for its economies and because my well water is exceptially pure. I talked things over with Scott and Ryan Burnett owners of Air Core, commercial contractors locally and together we chose the Carrier Model 50YDH026PCK301 Model 026 18,000 - 24,000 btu, and orderred it with bells and whistles:

    I wanted the desuperheater; the corrosion resistant cupra-nickel coils, (because pure water tends towards the acidic side of the ph scale) the variable capacity Copeland Scroll, and the ecm energy saving motor.

    Right after the old furnace was pulled out, I hired Stanley Steamer to clean the ductwork. (We had a special needs daughter in our home) The returns in particular had 3/4" of dust and crap in them.

    The unit is suspended from vibration mounts. from under my house. I decided one year after the install in 2008, to add a Whirlpool wholehouse water filter which I installed outside my brickwall, because I sure wasn't going to crawl under my house to change the filter.

    inlet water temperature in the summer is 70 degrees. Lowest winter temperature I have measured is 58 degrees.

    Compressor amp draw at partial loading 5.8 amps. Well draws 8 amps and cycles on and off with air bladder tanks. at 230 volts. The 1/2 hp well apparantly can handle the load, though I am considerring putting in a 3/4 hp when this well goes 'south.' Full load compressor draw is 7.5 - 8 amps heating or cooling.

    I am also using the Honeywell Pro 8000 programable thermostat which I basically like but has acted quirky from time to time. In my opinion, do not use a stat less capable than this. I actually used it originally with my cast iron furnace. It is very flexible.

    Comments the biggest problems I have had have been with the original orange TACO valves. the first two stopped closing completely at the 14 -16 month range. After going through my second TACO valve ($180.00), I bought an Hunter 24 volt irrigation valve for $19.00 and installed it on the second stage. It works. At the moment, I am still using the original TACO on stage one, because it proves water flow before starting the compressor, and is slow opening, closing. I may replace number one with an equivalent Belimo, later.

    Problems: first one was that it would not generate any heat whatever. The problem was that the taco circulating pump would not come on because the klixon discharge temperature switch on compressor outlet is rated to come on at about 137 - 143 degrees F and this unit with R410a is so efficient that the line ran 116 - 132 most of the time. Originally I disconnected the klixon switch and straignt wired it to normally closed contacts on a 120 volt wireless controlled general purpose relay. I reduced water flow and then had all the hot water I wanted all summer long.

    At startup when we opened the water lines, water blew through an incompletely brazed joint at the taco pump. That was after all the signed quality assurance paperwork they sent with the heat pump. Ryan quickly rebrazed and corrected the poor braze on that water line.

    We are just starting winter, so I unwired the part of the taco pump that went through normally closed contacts on that relay. These were the contacts that allowed the circulating pump to run when the compressor started, and now the taco will only come on or off using my wireless remote control.

    My understanding is that ClimateMaster, the company who builds this Carrier model, has a new electronic board to solve the problem. I am currently checking with Carrier to see if they will furnish the board as a retrofit, since the desuper heater never worked from the factory. We'll see.

    The other problem I had was lockouts last winter. I had thought that suction pressure was going too low, but after carefully reading the code # 4 error out of the circuit board, it indicated low water coil temperature.

    I talked with RL at Climate Master who told me to strap a digital thermometer at the spot where the sensor was mounted. That sensor shuts off the compressor if it reads 30 degrees refrigerant going into the water coil. On test runs I found that the sensor was shutting the compressor off at 34 and 37 degrees. BINGO!

    Since Scott and Ryan are the "official licensed installers" they are checking on the sensor. My understanding at this point is that the compressor is warranted 10 years, all other parts, 5

    Here are some changes I will be making. I will be purchasing the GE Hybrid hot water heater, installing it in my house, (no garage) and turning the present Whirlpool 50 gallon hot water heater into a preheater only without electricity. I will be running a second taco circulating pump to circulate hot water lines from the GE to my bathroom and the kitchen.

    By the way, never pull the factory refrigerant caps off of your heat pump unless you have trouble shot other things first, or evidence points to a leak in the system.

    This is year two. I'll post updates in the future.

    December 21, 2010 update

    I had had a lot of cold weather lock outs in 2009 / 2010 Error # 4 (coil temperature too low) I finally placed a Cooper temperature probe on the spot where the grey thermistor measures thermostatic expansion valve temperature just before the refrigerant is metered into the water coil. I found temperatures that dropped below 30 F; 23F , 17F, which is below the 30 degree trip point that locks out the compressor.

    I also found that the original freeze protection fp1 sensor (grey wires) false indicated two times at 37 F and 34 F. That grey sensor has been replaced.

    I wound up buying a bottle of R-410A (I do commercial hvac) and borrowing a weight scale from Ryan and Scott Burnett, the "official" installers of my heat pump. I hooked up a brand new set of German made Testo digital electronic gauges and the temperature sensor probes that come with the gauge set to measure subcooling and superheat.

    I could not measure ANY superheat or subcooling. At that point I realized I had a leak "somewhere" unless the plastic valve caps leaked. This model takes 58 oz of measured or "weighed in"charge from the factory.

    I MEASURED in 13 oz of 'borrowed R410A" the first night and suction and high side pressures started coming up along with heating capacity. That 17 degree measured temperature on the thermostatic expansion valve immediately came up in the 40's F, but then again dropped, until the charge was brought up to the the factory amount the following night.

    The following night I weighed in an additional 3 oz. Suction came up @ 130 psig; head pressure eventually @ 335 psig. Temperaure of liquid at the expansion valve stayed in the 40's, F.

    Heating capacity has returned to normal for now.

    While I don't have the exact Carrier pdf guideline pressures or subcooling, superheat values in front of me, you are generally looking for 5-15 degrees subcooling and something like that in superheat. ( If you have 2-3 degrees subcooling, you are undercharged; if you have 20 - 30 degrees subcooling you are OVERCHARGED).

    Digital gauges read stable and have better resolution than analogs. TIP: If you do not calculate superheat and subcooling from either a set of gauges like the Testos or from a refrigerant / pressure chart, YOU ARE GUESSING AND ARE CLUELESS.

    It is either that or weight in the specified charge with electronic weight scales from zero.

    If refrigerant leaks out again, I will have to leak search in the cabinet and at the water outlet for escaping R410A. You have to be careful not to suck up water in the sensor of the leak detector.
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2010
  2. waterpirate

    waterpirate Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Sorry to hear it has not been a smooth transition to geo. It is my opinion that "these things" are getting way to complex for their own good. The kiss principle I think applies to geo and the unit manufactureres are not buying in. A cool head will allways prevail if you are patient and have good support from your installer. The prblems you report about the taco valves are legend here, most everyone has switched to the irrigation valves you get at lowes or simmilar big box. There has laso been alot of disscussion about the woes of getting your desupraheater plumbed correctly and on line as a benifit not another problem. Keep us posted and ask if you need help, the brain trust here is exceptional.
  3. Nice Company

    I am reading a lot and have learned a lot from the team, (your postings) about geo and solving problems. I hope I have helped somewhere.
  4. waterpirate

    waterpirate Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    If we all keep sharing/ everything/ the more we all learn.
  5. Fairly quick comment: I agree; THERE IS ALWAYS ROOM FOR CONTINUOUS IMPROVEMENT, Carrier / Climate Master, are you listening? I DO like the circuit boards in my unit. They are simplifying diagnoses on my unit and on all the other name brands out there, so we are less guessing on diagnosis. So far, factory design on protection seems to be solid. Even though my sensor failed on the wrong side of the scale, it was trying to keep me, the customer, from freezing the main coil, resulting in a $900.00 U.S ? repair bill ? The sensors, fp1, fp2, by the way, were placed in a very easy to replace location. FOUR THUMBS UP! RL at Climate Master, Oklahoma knew what the heck he was talking about and was willing to talk to me at 5:01 PM his time. I thankfully let him go for his well deserved beer. Hey, Carrier / Climate Master I am not 'bashing you.'
    Be nice to me.
  6. QAS

    QAS New Member

    Nice Tech Work

    I'm a sales rep for ClimateMaster and I appreciate the nice comments that you've posted. We do have some great tech support guys at the factory. We will continue to try and improve everything about our units, but this is only possible with recommendations from guys like you in the field. Thanks for the updates!
  7. Leak Issue

    My system went back down Christmas Eve, 2010. I shut it down. I didn't want to hurt the unit. My startup pressures were like 45 psig / 245 psig head, temp at the thermostatic expansion valve fp1 location, below 30 degrees.

    We are now been heating with kerosine because we never installed back up electric heat. (At least our kids are out of the house).

    As they have time, Scott and Ryan Burnett of Air Core Services Inc. (licensed installers) will come over and together we will begin reviewing the gas pressure and temperature readings, and we will be doing a careful leak search. I will repost when we get some some more facts.

    By the way enterring water temp has never been less than 58 degrees here in Lexington SC.

    You asked for feedback. First, apart from whatever repair is eventually performed on the unit, I have had problems with the hot water generator part of it from the beginning. This model had the earlier 135 degree klixon switch on the compressor discharge line. That switch ONLY closes between 135 - 145 degrees.

    In short, the hot water generator made very little hot water most of the time when the switch was left as wired from the factory.

    Some of that during the last year may have been connected with having a slow leak ) i;e; performance degrading through a slow leak).


    But performance of the hot water generator after the first winter was a bit disappointing. It was actually pretty good in the summers after I slightly reduced water flow, and straight wired the circulating pump to the contactor but the hot water generator did not do as well in winter. The issue in cooler months is that an AUTOMATIC device needs to cycle the hot water circulating pump on and off or decide when the pump can run to heat water.

    I know that newer Carrier models of the GTPX are controlling hot water generation using a circuit board with sensors. It is not clear to me whether that could be a simple retrofit for my 2008 GTPX unit or not.

    The Carrier Oct 1, 2010 Installation, Operation, Maintenance, Instructions pdf make reference to this new circuit board on page 17 of the pdf.which means that the board is definately on the newer models.

    What I am saying is that just as car manufacturers put out service bulletins on important changes, and you bring the car in to have those changes done, that Carrier or ClimateMaster could do the same to bring the product up to date. But you guys should be contacting me, the guy that paid all the $$$$ for this thing.

    If upgrading a 2008 Carrier GTPX model is possible, Carrier and ClimateMaster should be coming to me to tell me about it, or at least supplying parts and instructions. The last time Scott and Ryan talked to our Carrier Columbia rep, and asked him about this, he said that there were NO bulletins or upgrades concerning this.


    Scott of Air Core came over Monday Jan 3, 2011, and together we took a closer look at my heat pump starting with a careful leak search. This is self contained unit, not a split system.

    The first thorough search using a rated detector for R410A revealed nothing except that my brand new JB brand R410A rated hoses had a mini leak at one of about 5 joint or crimp areas. Boo, JB.

    No leak at the coil, or anywhere else. I isolated water lines and disconnected the factory water hoses, leaving the heat exchange coils: primary and hot water generator 65% or more empty so that nothing could freeze and damage anything during recovery pump out. We recovered @ 14 oz. R410A. (There may have been some loss by leaving the hoses on the unit for a week or more) We did not detect leaks in the open heat exchanger tubes before we recovered.

    With the system empty, we replaced the two year old schraeder valves with new.

    We then nitrogen pressurized the refrigerent side of the system to 205 psig for 1 1/2 hours. We used nitrogen because it is dry and will not change pressure readings like refrigerent. It seemed to hold at 204 psig.

    We triple evacuated using dry nitrogen and a Thermal T micron gauge/ meter and we pulled eventually to 250 microns, isolated vacuum pump and gauges to see if that reading might "float" up. It remained pretty stable.

    Then we "weighed in" the factory charge + 2-3 0z. New brass valve caps were used .
    The originals were plastic.

    When we started up Scott did up the water flow quite a bit, which I am slowly cutting back on. But pressures were normal, compared to Carrier pdf, and the temperature at the thermostatic expansion valve (fp1 attach point) seems for the moment to be 40 - 41 degrees. Time will tell if the charge will hold.

    So, how did the original refrigerent charge escape? Through the valve caps? I don't know. I do suspect that adding refrigerent on these new blends may not be a good idea. That is to say that the system may not perform the same as recoverring refrigerent and re weighing in the new virgin charge in liquid form.
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2011
  8. waterpirate

    waterpirate Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Since CM moved to push their air handlers and thermostats we have seen a rash of problimatic and cranky start ups using the new equipment. A bigger push should be made by CM on the distributor level to get the techs and installers up to speed and smooth out the transition to the new stuff. Just my .02

    P.S. I almost forgot, welcome to the forum!
  9. January 17th 2011


    On January 8th, 2011 the well motor failed suddenly. Fortunately the safeties on the heat pump shut it off! Thank God!

    The design on safeties seems to work well!

    Our local well repairman, who also does a lot of work on chicken farms, graciously came out at 9:30 AM that Saturday morning with his helper and together we changed out my failed 3/4 HP submerged well motor with a new Franklin Electric 1 HP complete with 2 yr warranty AND FINISHED BEFORE NOON, I was impressed!. $750.00 ouch. The failed well motor had lasted 10 years; good value.

    Scott and I are now convinced that well pumping capacity had been reduced, during the last year or two, ( the clue was the well running constantly when the heat pump ran) requiring ball valves to be open more to compensate for pumping flow volumne loss.

    Lessons learned: I did not have a flow meter in the line to monitor flow volumne in real time. I bumped up HP from 3/4 to 1 HP (which doesn't mean that 3/4 HP might not work ok)

    I will install a hedland flow meter that will handle a 10 gallon per minute flow.

    I may probably add a larger bladder tank to minimize on / off time. I will consult with my well repairman, since he is the expert on this.
  10. waterpirate

    waterpirate Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Did you replace the whole assymbly or just the motor? changing the motor without changing te wet end will only increase the pressure not the flow. Glad you got fast prompt service.
  11. ? clarification about pump replacement?

    Water Pirate,

    These submerged pumps are @ 30 - 34 inches long, maybe 2 1/2" in diameter. I believe they free hang or in some cases may rest on something, like the bottom They are self contained and pull water from the middle (in case the bottom is resting on something) I may not understand what you are asking. I would think that everything is renewed since the pump is self contained. I know they are heavy.
  12. waterpirate

    waterpirate Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    sounds to me like you got the "whole enchilada" wet end and motor together. Service protocols vary wildly from area to area and is all a matter of interpretation of the manufactures book. Good luck and keep us posted.
  13. measuring water flow

    I have added a King flow indicator (King Instrument Company Garden Grove Ca.) Item 7510217A08 ¾” npt pvc EP 10 gpm brand water flow meter to make water flow checking easier. $131.65 I purchased it through Instrumart 35 Green Mountain Dr. Burlington VT. 05403 (802) 863-0085

    This specific flow meter measures water flow from about 2 - 10 gpm. My 2 ton unit will always require 1/ 1/2 - 3 gpm water flow per ton, so normally the measured flow would be between the 3 and 6 gpm indicator lines. Very simple unit, one moving part.

    Larger tonnage WOULD REQUIRE A DIFFERENT FLOW METER. Study first, or talk to someone who knows these products; order carefully.

    It was very well packed but scared me because the outer box was HUGE. I thought they sent me the wrong thing.

    The gauge is 15" long prepared for 3/4" pvc. I thought it might be too big, but I have a vertical rise higher than that for leaving water so it was a simple matter of isolating water, cutting pvc, screwing in 3/4" male adaptors with teflon, mounting it on the vertical, and using pvc primer and glue on the male adaptors. I let it set for 40 minutes and ate dinner, and it was ready to go.

    Now I have a better idea of what is going on. Hopefully the flow meter will hold up since it only passes water. It is on the leaving side measuring total outlet flow.

    On a well with a bladder tank, you can see the flow rate drop just before the pressure control turns the pump on.

    Geo installers need to install something like this when the unit is put in. Just include it in the bid!
  14. July 16, 2011 Bad Saturday

    July 16, 2011

    Residential coils should be cleaned in the summer, if you are using self rinsing coil cleaners. These cleaners are more gentle on the coil and rinse away some dirt as the evaporator coil removes prodigous amounts of water from the house as it runs.

    Johanne agreed to help me with the work. I explained a little of how geo thermal heat pumps work and what a service technician needs to do to service them correctly in case I die one day.

    We put on dirty clothes, pulled the disconnect block.

    When I pulled the blower housing cover off, I saw that the upper cabinet insulation had fallen down. All of the cold wet air that was condensing on the top part of the cabinet had flooded the bottom, ruining the insulation there. The floor area of the unit was flooded with water.

    This is where hvac technicians get lazy. Straightening the mess out is work.

    The good news was that installers Scott and Ryan Burnett and myself gave some thought about service access when we installed the unit and made sure we could get to it properly in case of need for repair. This simplified things a lot. Tip

    Johanne and I began ripping the wet insulation out and putting the wet mess into a large aluminum turkey baster pan. (No, you can't reuse the insulation, that's for "Turkeys") ! Professionals replace ruined insulation!

    I then began to try and remove the blower housing and GE ECM motor unit for better access. Climate Master did something right here. When a blower housing is fastened by two 3/8" bolts on the access side and two more on the opposite side, it can be very difficult to remove and replace the blower housing. (Sometimes lineup is tough)

    Here, Climate Master only put bolts on the access door side. The blower was not loose or anything. So I very carefully studied the plug in connectors on the ECM motor, released them carefully without breaking anything, and fastened them high out of the way of the water with a temporary nylon tie. The interior was now exposed and easier to work on.

    While Johanne cleaned and dried things up, I went for parts. By now both of the hvac parts houses in town that were open till noon were closed. So I went to Lowes and picked up a 2" plastic backed water insulation blanket designed to wrap a water heater in a house, and cut two sections 19" x 37" to replace the ruined insulation.

    I had access to COMMERCIAL insulation retainers which resemble square roofing tacks used by roofers; very useful They are square and have a peel off glue base on one side and a sharp nail on the other. Ater cleaning up the unit, I placed four of these square base insulation retainers on the upper horizontal section facing down. I then began to carefully "fit" the insulation inside. What worked for me was after drying everything, I physically fit the first batt on the bottom in the space, then lifted it up, I then sprayed a very good quality aerosol insulation glue on the floor and on the insulation, and then pressed them together. Plastic or foil side faces you.

    Next you fit the upper insulation batt. One side was actually held in place by refrigerant piping. You allow it to hang down a bit, then spray the upper horizontal surface and the insulation itself. Push them together. It sticks.

    Where you have those square insulation retainers with the nail sticking down, you push the insulation against the sharp nail, making sure you don't pierce your hand !!! and push the SMALL metal square retainer with the tiny hole that comes with the other piece over that nail sticking down, and voila! that insulatiion can NEVER fall down again ever! Just make sure you use them by the access door.

    Johanne had wiped over the stainless steel drainage area with warm soapy water. I ran my finger through the 3/4" outlet to make sure that it was clear. I sprayed the coil from the inside out with self rinsing coil cleaner from an old insecticide bottle and left 4 algaecide tablets ( 2 tablets per ton) in the condensate tray to dissolve slowly over the next 18 months. That takes care of things that grow and creep in the night.

    I next replaced the blower housing and ECM motor by reversing my steps described earlier; made very sure the connectors were plugged in correctly and extra wires fastened out of the way. One side done!

    I next replaced the 2" 18 x 18 x 2 air filters on the other side. Tip: I taped the two new filters together with transparent shipping tape on one side only to insure that no air can bypass the filter media in the middle. I taped one side which allows the filters to fold at 90 degrees as you install them. works. MERV 11 is preferred. (filters very fine) I will special order them next time.

    Climate Master did something else right. They put a 2" flat pull strip in the unit for REMOVING those 2" filters. I found that I could use the strip to place three more algaecide tablets in the groove over the drain pan right after the filters. worked. works

    I did have a problem spraying the coil properly because the insecticide spray want points straight. I needed something that would turn 90 degrees. It worked good enough, but I am looking for a better wand / sprayer.

    The next thing I wanted to look at was the condensate pump. We had to use an electric condensate pump because the heat pump unit hung so low under the house. It is partially buried. I disconnected the 120 volt plug (which powers the pump itself) and the separate low voltage 24 volt AC switch wiring which is wired into the common end of the heat pump operation circuit. This switch is in series with the main compressor contactor circuit. While normally closed, it opens when or if the condensate pump motor fails to pump and the condensate basin fills to 80% and prevents nasty flooding (in my case) under the house.

    Tip: These pumps have a check valve somewhere. If you use powerfull acid or alkalie cleaners, they will dissove a cheap rubber flapper one way valve, and then you will be hunting for a replacement that you will not be able to find. My point? Condensate Pumps are designed to pump water with a neutral ph.
    Condensate pumps pump on and off as summer condensate slowly fills them up
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2011
  15. Investigation

    (ran into a posting limit)

    Anyhow, only one section of my 3/4" pvc drain outlet is glued, which allows me to take everything apart for cleaning. (They haven't leaked for me since those pieces are not under pressure). I cleaned all these in the kitchen sink and pulled the pump cover of the condensate pump at my kitchen sink to inspect and clean the inside. Everything was pretty clean BECAUSE I used algaecide tablets in the heat pump evaporator tray and in the condensate pump LAST year.

    Tip: If you allow your heat pump to run without mantenance, green and grey and black gooey, creepy things love water and oxygen and will play with your coil, drains, and condensate pump, eventually clogging something up.

    Next, I tested the pump in the sink by filling the tank slowly and putting my hand over the outlet that goes to the the vinyl tubing. If you omit that step and have a powerful pump the water will hit the ceiling when it starts (which your wife may not like).

    It passed the test, so I added 4 more algaecide tablets to the condensate pump: two this side, two that side and put it back where it belongs, CAREFULLY hooking up up the two 24 volt ac leads going the the compressor contactor common, the pvc drain pieces, and the 120 volt line cord which plugs into a ground fault outlet that I installed the other year.

    October 8, 2011

    In between season; some heating some cooling. Had begun adjusting water flows upward. Unit locked out in cooling mode (error code 4) (air coil too cold). Later locked out in heating mode (error code 5) ( water coil too cold). Incoming water temperature 65 degrees; during inspection of unit found some of original insulation farther down than I liked.

    October 15th, 2011

    Replaced "soft yellow insulation" with 1/2" commercial rubber like "K-Flex" (recommended by fellow commercial technicians) Removed outside panel cover (s) which gave good access. Blower came out in 5 seconds after removing 7/16 bolts; was VERY careful with blower connectors. Took half the day using citrus product to remove gooey insulation adhesive, which leaves everything with a "greasy" feel. Cleaned with soap and water so that adhesive would stick to clean metal casing. This took most of the day. Completed job looks pretty good.

    October 29th 2011

    Scott Burnett of Air Core Services (installer and fellow technician) came over and we observed the unit together. Insulation in main unit was good and holding; water flows between 6 - 7 gpm; 65 degrees F; repeated lockouts in cooling and heating. (Currently running 1st stage only). code 4 in cooling, code 5 in heating. Removed flex duct attached to main commercial grade return plenum to make sure nothing had fallen down inside. Filters are clean, coil is clean, no restrictions in return. Temporarily removed electronic sensor attached to thermostatic expansion valve; unit kept running. Conclusion: sensors are doing what they are supposed to do and are ok. Temperature at TEV 16 degrees F, not good. Tentative conclusion: either bad thermostatic expansion valve OR refrigerant leak (which would give similar results.

    November 8th, 2011

    Because of small tonnage, chose to monitor and add refrigerant as necessary. At 65 D enterring water temp normal suction pressure would be:126 - 151 psig; head pressure: 320 - 340 psig. Startup was 67 and 218 psig. As I added liquid, my temp at TEV went up immediately to @ 60 degrees (above the critical 30 D point where sensors shut off the unit), unit continued to run heat. Added over 2 lbs of refrigerant. The heat pump began to perform normally.

    Scott and I had done a careful leak search in January and MEASURED in a replacement 58 oz charge. I have lost 2 lbs R-410a since then.
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2011
  16. Other Changes

    Purchased a 50 gallon G.E. Geo Spring heat pump water heater and installed it in the house in early October. Noise doesn't bother us. (You can always cut off the main circuit breaker at night) Carrier heat pump transfers heat to original hot water tank # 1. Made slight water piping changes, corrected and reinsulated all water piping, added check and balancing valves, and a TACO # 008 115 volt recirculator pump to eliminate "cold run" to kitchen and distant bathroom. New (2nd) hot water circulator pump is controlled by a 115 volt "Sensor" motion detector outlet purchased on Amazon. ( Pump can't run when house is unoccupied ) Original 55 gallon hot water tank is now warm / hot water storage tank # 1, unpowered. G.E. is final tank # 2. With correct refrigerent charge heat pump can raise water temp from 70 to 95 D. in two hrs of heating. G.E. runs pulling 2 amps at 240 volts, (compare to 19 amperes using 4,500 watt internal heaters) Incoming water temp to G.E. ranges from 70 - 95 + depending on length of heat pump run time.

    One thing I like about heat pump water heaters is that they are stand alone heaters. They can still heat with resistence heat if the compressor section "goes down". Hot water heaters like this can accept ANY temperature water, (though recovery is slowed down greatly by cold enterring water) This is very useful when the heat pump doesn't run much in the fall and spring.
  17. Something's leaking

    12/18/2011 More lockouts. Had noticed that supply outlet air temperatures had dropped from 96 F to 86 F over 6 week period... same drill, rechecked water flows 4 / 6 gpm, picked up my Testo 410a gauges, added R410a refrigerent. Lockouts stopped. Can you imagine me going back to Montreal, Canada for Christmas? I can't trust the system. I would have to shut off the unit and drain my entire water system to avoid potential freeze damage.

    I am crossing my fingers that I can get through winter till spring when Scott Burnett ( Air Core ) and myself can hopefully carefully pressure test according the Climate Master criteria. They said they would replace the unit if heat exchange coil is proven leaking: small print: if there is not corrosion present, no freeze damage, if... If they send out another unit and cannot reproduce the leak on this one, then I will have purchased the unit twice. I actually hope the leak becomes large enough to prove easily.
  18. February 11, 2012


    Feb 11th, 2012

    Tonight we are pulling down to 31 degrees F. I noticed that I had trouble getting the house warmer than 68 degrees, outlet temperatures had dropped from the 90's to 80 degrees, 66% loading. No lockouts, but short on heat.

    Ambient has dropped to 33 degrees F heading towards 31. I put Testo electronic gauges on the unit. Expected pressures according the Carrier pdf were Suction: 126 - 151 psig Head pressure: 320 - 340 psig. Initial start up pressures were 92 psig suction 248 psig head pressure. Added probably 12 oz of R-410a. Outlet temperatures rose from 80 degrees to 89.4 one hour later, 66% heating, first stage call,

    Other comments: last fall I removed the standard $18.00 Whirlpool filter for testing purposes and left it out. I have actually had few lockouts since, though efficiency has been effected by the leak. The Lexon plastic bowl still catches trace amounts of sand with no filter inside of it. I suspect that I reduced restriction.

    As I type we have gone to 100% load 91.0 F so the unit CAN perform when charged correctly. Valve caps were still tight.
    Anyhow we have a slow leaker. But I dread having to "prove" the leak.
  19. Calladrilling

    Calladrilling Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    You are seeing sand in your filter housing?
    When you replaced the well pump from 3/4 to a 1 hp did you upgrade your holding tank size as well?
    What brand holding tank and model # tank is it? Brand and model # well pump too?
    Ideally you would like to see the pump run as long as possible when the heat pump runs to avoid short cycling. Short cycling can cause a well to surge and draw in sand through the well screen.
  20. engineer

    engineer Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Can you beg, borrow, or steal a refrigerant leak detector?

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