Is this a proper hook up? Pleas view pics and help.

by **pstaff** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:20 pm

I am closing on a new construction in a week or so. I have had issues with the plumber and AC guys along the way. Example would be that he was going to charge an extra $1000 (labor) if I wanted a Marathon water heater, because they are not made for geothermal. The system just got hooked up and the loop lines by the unit are putting off a lot of water due to condensation. He did not insulate the lines and the water runs down the side of the unit and all over the floor. He also used 1/2 inch pieces of tubing from the unit to the water heater and the installation manual said that it should be 5/8 min. the rest of the pipe is 5/8.
Questions.
1) Will the small runs of 1/2 mess up the desuperheater?
2) How can the condensation problem be fixed?
3) how does the over all installation look from the pictures? Anything should be changed?
4) The loop runs from the far side of the house about 30' to the system. Seems the lines have condensation everywhere the lines are not insulated. Can these be insulated enough to avoid the condensation? My fear is the water will build up and start to mold behind the drywall.
5) The system was running and both loop lines felt cold , is that normal or should one line be warm?
Thanks in advance for any help. I have spent many hours on this forum and have yet to find the answers and that is why I am posting this.
The pictures are after the system has not run for about 12 hours so most of the water has dried up.

by **urthbuoy** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:51 am

1) Will the small runs of 1/2 mess up the desuperheater?
2) How can the condensation problem be fixed?
3) how does the over all installation look from the pictures? Anything should be changed?
4) The loop runs from the far side of the house about 30' to the system. Seems the lines have condensation everywhere the lines are not insulated. Can these be insulated enough to avoid the condensation? My fear is the water will build up and start to mold behind the drywall.
5) The system was running and both loop lines felt cold , is that normal or should one line be warm?
Thanks in advance for any help. I have spent many hours on this forum and have yet to find the answers and that is why I am posting this.

1) 1/2" for desuperheater is "adequate"
2) Interior lines need to be insulated
3) Looks ok - but I haven't studied diligently the setup
4) Yes, insulate.
5) Yes, lines will generally feel cool. You are only looking at a relatively small delta T (depends) on the incoming vs. outgoing. Stick your hand in some deep outside dirt. That's the warmest you'll feel in heating mode for those lines.

by **jrh** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:08 am

an extra $1k to hook up a marathon makes no sense, as does not insulating lines, there should also be a tee to vent the condensate line(might just be out of the picture)As for the HWG those lines should also be insulated. I would also recommend adding a pre-heat tank, HWG arent much good without them.

by **Bergy** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:16 pm

The marathon is "made" just as much for Geothermal as the Richmond water heater is. You really should have two tanks, piped in series as shown in the attachment. The first tank is a "buffer tank" for the heat pump. Whenever the unit runs the desuperheater can heat the tank, regardless of what the main tank is doing. Your setup has the desuperheater and electric elements fighting one another. When the family gets up in the morning and places a demand on the water heater the elements fire up, trying to keep the tank at temperature. At the same time, if the heat pump is running, the desuperheater is trying to heat the tank.

by **pstaff** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:15 pm

Thanks for the help.
I was planning on installing a buffer tank after I move in. Is it worth purchasing a Marathon and use the current one as the buffer, or just buy the cheapest water heater I can get and use it as a buffer and not worry about the electrical work?

What is the minimum recommended size for the buffer tank? Current tank is 87 Gal. and will be a family of 4.

Thanks for the help.

by **taco_mel** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:37 pm

Since you won't be powering the buffer tank, the efficiency doesn't matter. R-value of the tank is what would matter most in this case, so your generated hot water stays hotter. A hot water tank insulation blanket (less than $25 at Home Depot) can help boost the R-value. Also consider durability of the tank itself.

To the "experts" here -- would it also be a good idea to insulate the geo pipe between the flow controller and the heat pump? My setup looks a lot like the above and I get a fair amount of condensation because those aren't insulated.

by **jrh** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:52 pm

taco_mel wrote:would it also be a good idea to insulate the geo pipe between the flow controller and the heat pump? My setup looks a lot like the above and I get a fair amount of condensation because those aren't insulated.

Yes!